About This Site

4th Wave Feminism has three goals.  This distinguishes it from egalitarianism.

First, much like the NAACP, it can work as a special interest group for women’s issues. There’s lots of very helpful things 4th Wavers can do in that regard. Second, we refute the misinformation put out by the 3rd Wave, and try to repair the animosity caused between genders with public awareness and other measures.  The most distinguishing feature that sets them apart is that 3rd Wave is Faith Based, while 4th Wave is Evidence Based!  4th Wave has evidence backing it’s observations, while 3rd Wave relies on narratives.  Third, other countries desperately need the improved quality of life that is strongly associated with gender equality.  Later, when we have the ability to do so, we could advocate for women in countries who are being *actually* oppressed (being stoned to death is just a slightly bigger deal than being told to smile on the subway).

The practical applications of making equality the focus is demonstrated by a number of examples.

A woman who expresses sexual interests should not be “slut shamed”, but a man who does the same thing should not be called a “pervert”. By acknowledging only one side, we come off as disingenuous. This is not “equal”.

Women are judged by their looks – but a woman who doesn’t fit the ideal should not be “fat shamed”. Men are judged by their achievements – but a man who doesn’t earn a 6 income salary is not a “bum”. My girlfriends shouldn’t be gathering around to tell me I can “do better” when because doesn’t earn enough – the same exact way dudes shouldn’t be telling him that he can do better because I’m not a size 6. (Though personally, I would argue that it’s easier for me to fit into a size 6 than it is for him to earn over 100,000 a year.)

If a woman wants to join the military, she needs to fill the exact same requirements that a man does. No special treatment, no privileges. I specialized in biomechanics for 10 years. There is no reason why a woman can’t do the same number of pushups and pull ups that are required of men. Being given a free pass on a fitness test is a privilege. Equality means “both sides are equal” – equal in privileges, and equal in responsibilities to earn those privileges.

If we want to build a movement with effective public relations, with a foundation of transparency and trust, then we need to acknowledge all societal judgments that are unfair, that all groups have them, and that everyone may participate in making these judgments from time to time, regardless of how much money they do or don’t have, what colour their skin is, or whether or not they have a penis.

In her book, “When God Was A Woman”, Merlin Stone investigates earlier religions that worshiped a female deity rather than a male deity. She states that the intention of her book is that it “may lead to a better understanding, cooperation, and mutual respect between men and women”. This statement is very typical of a 2nd Waver, and personally I find this to be a fantastic attitude. Mutual respect. Not demanding that men start respecting women, as if no woman is ever respected, or that respect isn’t a two way street.

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26 thoughts on “About This Site

  1. Hi! I just stumbled upon your site last night! I can’t remember how, some comment you left somewhere. Anyway, I find your site AMAZING and such a breath of fresh air! I noticed you talk about fostering ‘mutual respect’, which is what I put in the tagline of my blog genderallies.org
    As someone on the far left, feminism has become so deeply ingrained in leftist politics, but 3rd wave feminism has completely jumped the shark and is straight up, anti male propoganda (as you seem well aware).
    But I am inspired to see sites like yours emerging and think change is on the horizon! More and more fair minded, egalitarian people seem to be speaking up to the feminist bullies.

    And I see you are working on a book? I’m excited to read it!

    Like

    • Hi there Chris! Thanks for the support! 😀

      Hm… perhaps I should have included this in my post. I’ll go back and edit – if anyone wants a copy of the book, just email me at athena.k.brown@gmail, tell me how you came across 4th Wavers (to help me know you’re real and not a spam bot), and I’ll be glad to send you a copy.

      Liked by 1 person

      • I love your site too! And as a little aside there ARE things women are better at, and being a happy confident adult I think that’s pretty cool. Women excel at multitasking, but we all know that one. Women also have better emotional memory, make better rock climbers (balanced center of gravity) and have the potential to be better snipers lol (they can hold their bodies more still- dates from prehistory and hiding from predators).

        Women are amazing and I am just as annoyed as anyone else with common sense that the 3rd wave decided to dive headlong into stereotype reinforcement (women lacking confidence, accountability, focus, reason, and require handholding so they do not get discouraged when making life choices) instead of SHOWING them how powerful they really are and what they can achieve. Women have access to all the same wisdom, fortitude, patience, endurance, confidence and agency that men do. The 3rd tells the world women really ARE slaves to their emotional state and always have been? They need to stfu and let real women speak.

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  2. Appreciate the breath of fresh air in the calamity that is modern day feminism. I found this site after a black male ‘reporter’ for Starcitygames posted an article about what it’s like for women in the Magic: The Gathering scene. As a minority he has some sense of what it’s like to be ostracized and have to fight to be included. There are more women playing Magic than there are minorities. (Now, I say minorities but MTG is played around the world. You would not call a Korean playing in Korea a minority, they are the majority there. I think I was actually a minority when I was playing there with them, but they were very welcoming of all cultures so it never felt that way) So this gentleman wrote an article to share and better accept women into the world he loves so much. Nerd guys are the worst to deal with, even as a guy who loves to play the game but knows there’s a life outside of their contained bubble. They aren’t accepting of new people because they’ve been picked on and made fun of. MTG is their safe place, where they can find like minded nerds to play with and create a force field from the world. The first time I showed up to a game store someone approached me because I was looking at their collection in the glass case. He and I got to talking and he was asking what I do. I told him I was in the military and had just got into the game through a friend. I asked him if anyone was playing and looking for someone to play with. He told me flat out, ‘Man, these dudes don’t venture out of their bubble’s often. I’ll play with you, but you’re going to have to put in some time and effort to make friends with these bastards’. They didn’t care if I was male/female, nerd/jock, white/black – they didn’t want to be hurt so they cautiously welcomed anyone into their flock. I’ve digressed from my original point. So, this gentleman wrote this article to try and explain why not just females, but anyone can find it difficult to make it into a new playgroup. The third wave Tumblr train caught wind of this and started complaining and bombarding the comment section to the point this dude retracted his article and felt like he had to issue an apology. These women were telling him, the only minority on their staff, to check his privilege. He didn’t know the point of view of women because he was a man, when he wasn’t going from the point of view of women – he was taking the outsider looking in approach. But because the article was named ‘Welcoming more Women into Magic’ and he was a male, he needed to be put into check. I listen to the Maddox podcast, I suggest the same to you- if you don’t know what that is google The Biggest Problem in the Universe. I bring this up to cover two points. 1) They mention a quote by Shakespeare paraphrased of course, ‘Every sling and arrow cannot be enough to fell you’. You need a cause, but nitpicking just makes you weak. Sexism in America is on it’s way out the door, yes there is still work to be done at home, but the real issues feminism was created to fight are no longer on our shores. The big causes are over seas in these third world countries, but they don’t seem to be interested in that. They are interested in what small thing that shove sand up their crack on the internet. Third wave is the lazy woman’s kind of feminism because it requires no real work, but can give them the same sense of righteousness as if they fought against Goliath and won. When these women quibble over minutia it just makes them look weak and petty. If feminism is to thrive as a just cause – fight the big fights here at home when they rear their ugly heads, but fight for these women overseas who have acid thrown on them, who are forced to mutilate their genitals, or who are mercy killed because they love a man their family didn’t prearrange them with. There are real issues in this world and they would rather sit on their asses behind their Tumblr wall and do nothing but yell at a guy who is trying to help someone who wants to get into Magic, but might see that social anxiety bubble nerds carry around with them. 2) The second reason I bring up the Maddox podcast. It’s funny as fuck, yes one of the hosts Dick Masterson is a sexist piece of shit, but after episode 3 you start to see the cunning ruse this man has created in creating his persona. He’s the author of the book ‘Men are Better Than Women’, and he’s the biggest troll you’ll ever meet. As for the other host Maddox, he would be what I consider a true 4th wave feminist. He’s bringing these issues to the forefront of his listeners minds, and in doing so he injects a lot of cultural awareness into what is supposed to be a comedy podcast. There’s a lot of episodes, but if I could suggest a few just for the feminist point of view: Episodes 13 for female genital mutilation. 27 for Engineering Sexism. 57 for Social Justice Warriors. 28 for Wage Gap Truthers. 59 for Manspreading Discontent. But, for a laugh, really listen to all of them.

    Liked by 1 person

    • This is one of the best ways of putting it that I’ve seen in a while:

      —– —–
      the real issues feminism was created to fight are no longer on our shores. The big causes are over seas in these third world countries, but they don’t seem to be interested in that. They are interested in what small thing that shove sand up their crack on the internet. Third wave is the lazy woman’s kind of feminism because it requires no real work, but can give them the same sense of righteousness as if they fought against Goliath and won.
      —– —–

      Absolutely brilliant! And I definitely will check out that podcast. I wonder if they might check out 4th Wavers. 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

      • They are very involved with their fans both in the comment sections and on all forms of social media. Also, if you fluff Maddox up enough I’m sure he’d love to read someone with a like minded opinion on Feminism. Keep up the great work.

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  3. Very cool blog. Thanks for taking a methodical, data and evidence-driven approach (which is so often missing out there, it seems).

    I’m definitely pro-equality, but I despair at the level of hatred and shutting down of legitimate debate out there on the web. I really hope men and women can find a way of living together in the 21st century – there is so much energy wasted on fighting each other rather than doing good together. Thanks for putting a lot of thought, energy and heart into making a difference.

    Like

    • I wouldn’t worry too much about that, I have a lot of girl friends and they universally despise the 3rd wave ideology. Less and less women identify as feminist now, but our cowardly media seems to indicate the opposite, they give multiple interviews to women who claim air conditioning is sexist. My theory is they do the lip service to stay out of the crosshairs then laugh at these femclowns behind closed doors.

      Like

  4. Love the blog! Really great insights and you’re able to articulate some pretty complex ideas very clearly. Keep up the great work!

    Like

  5. Pingback: What Is Feminism? | 4th Wave Feminism

  6. /wave

    Hi ya, thanks for the comment on my website and the link here. I’ll do a bit more reading but looks like we’re on a similar page on a lot of ideas. The biggest difference I’ve noticed is I concentrate on the UK and US. Totally agree there are bigger issues, but I don’t feel it is my place to tell women in other countries how they are oppressed. I will fully support them, but they are the ones who understand their culture, so I feel they must lead the way – but still great to see you supporting those issues.

    The Egalitarian Feminism community Twitter is: @EgaFeminist
    My personal one is @DisTurqLlama

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  7. I’ve been linking your site everywhere. I think it’s important to continue with the name ‘Feminism’ and not allow the 3rd wave to strip it of all credibility, while also not allowing people to label me ‘anti-Feminist’ or ‘Anti-woman.’ I strongly identify with a movement for equality but I must distance myself form the misleading, maligning, shaming tactics and hyperbole of the Regressive arm of Modern day Feminism.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Interesting blog.
    I think that all movement eventually fall victims of there collective social bubble and this as become worse with arrival of social media on the internet. You can easily find people with similar opinion and experience then yourself while sheltering yourself and limiting your exposure to other opinions. This can often lead people to believe that the majority think like them and that people that do not are troll, idiot or worse they are enemies that need to be eliminated. At that point the line to fanaticism as been crossed and its become almost impossible to have a real argument with the person.

    It is probably what is happening with feminism right now and why a lot of people try to distance them-self of it.

    I believe that the idea behind the 4th wave is good but its is important to not lose sight of your goals. You have stated three of them and maybe I’m wrong but your blog seams to focus only on refuting the argument of the 3rd wave. This can result in dividing the feminism movement even more instead of reforming it.

    Anyway I think your blog is worth reading and I might link it if the occasion present itself so keep up the good work.

    I hope that I was able to get my idea across. Its been a long time since I have written in English and I bet that I have made a lot of mistakes and chose some but turning of phrase.

    Like

  9. Pingback: What Is Feminism? – Unfiltered Conservatism

  10. This!!! Everything you have to say is what my husband and I say to one another every time we talk about third wavers. I found you in the comments section of some stupid site about dismantling the patriarchy. Your comments were like the voice of reason in a mad crowd. I will be sharing your blog on FB and following it obsessively now. Thanks for saying what needs to be said!!

    Like

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  15. Hello there! I stumbled onto this site via an Internet search, and like most men reading it, I find it a breath of fresh air, of logic and rationality instead of hysteria. I’m an odd duck, here; sensitive yet masculine fellow, I don’t consider myself anything resembling a “feminist” (egalitarian is my worldview) but yet I am more than OK with the 1st and 2nd wave of feminists’ struggles and the goals they accomplished, I’m not especially liberal or conservative…I’m somewhat of a walking gray area in the name of trying to be open minded. But one thing I definitely am is fed up.

    Fed up with the hysteria, the lies, the hatred and hypocrisy that modern feminism advocates more than anything else. In fact, I’d go as far as to say that currently, 3rd wavers are more affected by Antisocial Personality Disorder than anything resembling a desire to empower themselves or other women, and I am more than weary of it. I am weary of being everything they claim they want men to be (respectful, kindhearted, polite, sensitive, and I always have been those things towards women) and yet still not being good enough because PENIS (as you say) and because that apparently makes me a “Nice Guy, Trademark,” as someone I know is wont to say. I am tired of being declared always wrong and evil because I am a Straight White Male who refuses to toe their party line. I am weary of hearing scathing declarations like “WOMEN DON’T OWE YOU SHIT.” Um, no, you do. You owe me honesty and politeness to temper that honesty with if I express interest in you and you turn me down, because you know why? I’ll handle it a hell of a lot better if you’re polite but firm about it. Oh, wait, that’s right…RAPECULTUREMENAREALLRAPISTSBLAAAAAA! I am also more than weary of these same hysterical “rape culture” advocates always falling for the PUA types who so vehemently claim to be “feminist”–um, ladies? If he’s a guy and claiming that much to be “feminist”, guess what? He’s ON THE MAKE and you are in his sights. Think of that before you start batting your eyelashes at him, eh.

    I look forward to continuing to probe this site and learning more–knowledge is power, after all–and if this is what the new face of feminism in America will be, I am all for it. The third wave is a colossal failure, welcome the 4th wave, sez me.

    Like

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