Life as a 4th Waver vs a 3rd Waver

So I was at The Know bar the other night.  A really awesome friend invited me down to listen to her perform. Her name is Mikkayla Emaline McalisterClick here to see her soundcloud page.

At around 10:30pm I decided to come back home. Now I don’t like taking the bus, so I thought I’d just walk home. It’s only about 3 miles back to my place. I started off going in the wrong direction, so it actually turned out to be 3 and a half.  Feet were a little sore after that, but otherwise I was fine.

It dawned on me along the way just how liberating it is to be a 4th Wave feminist.  I can be concerned with legitimate women’s issues, AND have a healthy and positive view of the world. Can you imagine a 3rd Waver trying to walk home like this? *Every* *single* *little* *shadow* would scare them. Every guy they see that late at night is a potential rape threat. Behind every dark corner is a sexual assault. Every leaf the wind blows rustles on the ground with patriarchy!

I even decided to come back on an unfamiliar road, just for the hell of it (and because I’m not scared of everything that moves), but the road unexpectedly started splitting off in some confusing directions. Thankfully there was a dude with his shopping cart nearby… I went over and asked him for directions. Again, I can just imagine a 3rd Waver being absolutely terror-struck because OH NOES IT’S A MAN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT!!

Sure. A guy with a shopping cart, at 11pm, just totally out of the blue – and for no other reason than he’s male – is going to pounce on me like something off the Discovery Channel.  Because he doesn’t know it’s wrong.  Teach men not to rape.

Double Dragon

Holy whoa – look at those dudes going at it!!

I told this to a very good friend of mine who’s also trans, and they mentioned something about how dangerous it was, how I might get beat up, or how many knife fights I might walk into walking home at night like that.  In some ways I guess being a 3rd Waver is like living in the world of Double Dragon.  I walk home and beat up dozens of shadow warriors.  After I knock down the last one and he blinks away, a thumbs up flashes, telling me I can continue.

In all fairness, there is an undeniable culture at large that conveys to women that they are always in danger, and that men are always a threat.  A number of extremely dishonest studies are produced and cited by 3rd Wavers that deliberately inflate claims of violence to make more women look like an endangered species.  Here’s one from the National Institute of Justice, which reports a whopping 25% of all women surveyed said they were raped or assaulted!  Impossibruuuu!!!  Of course, if you read the actual study, you’ll find that rape is defined (on page 16 of PDF reader) as “an event that occurs without the victim’s consent and involves the use of threat or force to penetrate the victim’s vagina or anus by penis, tongue, fingers, or object or the victim’s mouth by penis“.

This means if you feel you’ve been threatened, then you’re a statistic.  And inflated statistics like this create a culture of fear where you feel threatened all the time.  And since everyone feels threatened, that creates an even higher statistic.  Higher statistics give you an inflated sense of fear, creating a culture of fear where you feel threatened all the time.  This in turn, creates a higher statistic.  And “physical assault” is also defined in a way so that “feeling threatened” counts.

One of the actual questions used in this study for rape:

>> Has anyone, male or female, ever made you have oral sex by using force or threat of force? Just so there is no mistake, by oral sex we mean that a man or boy put his penis in your mouth or someone, male or female, penetrated your vagina or anus with their mouth.

 ^^^ Notice how “consent” is completely left out of the questioning.  Using force or threat of force is not rape.  A person might *want* to be forced (like me).  BDSM does this a lot, and sometimes sex gets a little rough, even if you’re not into that specific lifestyle.  The lack of consent is what makes it rape, so of course that’s naturally left out of the survey.

The questions for stalking are equally dubious.  Has anyone ever made an unsolicited phone call to you?  Showed up at places where you thought they didn’t belong?  For sure these could be legit stalking, but they also might not be.

The physical assault questions don’t ask whether or not the respondent initiated the act and started the fight, it only asks if they were assaulted.  I mean if you slapped first, does it make sense that you get slapped back?  Another example, imagine your woman grabs your phone, and tries to walk out the door with it.  You grab her and try to get the phone back – bam, she’s now a “physical assault” statistic.  I speak from experience on this one.  That very thing happened to me before I transitioned.  The woman I was staying with even used that incident to file a restraining order against me, which I challenged and then had dismissed.  (We’ve since made up and forgiven each other, but this kind of incident would be counted in the survey.)  Another thing that stands out is that this question is in the same category as “used a gun on you”.

Double Dragon II

3rd Wavers honestly believe this will happen anytime they walk outside after dark.

But you add all those up, and you get a huge, conflated number, making it look like everywhere you go, someone’s going to JUMP OUT OF THE BUSHES AND START BEATING YOU!!!

Then there is of course the wonderful “1 in 5” statistic.  You know the one; 1 in 5 college women will be RAPED!  You can find the actual study itself by clicking here.  Just click the download button, and it should pop up in MS Word right in front of you.  On page 4 of 5, you should see:

>> When you were drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent, how many people have ever …

That’s right ladies.  If you were DRUNK, or HIGH, and had sex, then you were raped.

I’ve never in my life drank alcohol.  I have no idea what beer tastes like.  The strongest drug I’ve ever done was NyQuil (hey, I was coughing and needed to sleep!)  But I had a girlfriend once who actually enjoyed doing drugs fairly often.  She was still my girlfriend because I don’t judge people on their lifestyles, as long as they’re responsible and not hurting anyone else.  And of course she was really beautiful and interesting.  But anyway, she would take some E – or at least I think that’s what it’s called (I’m not at all knowledgeable on that subject) and then want to lay in bed with me.  From what I understand, drunk / high sex can be fun.  Which would explain why it’s popular among college kids, especially on Spring Break and other events.

So who could possibly be surprised that drunk college girls are having sex?  What surprises me is that it’s only 1 in 5!!  I’d think that number should definitely be higher.

What this kind of nonsense creates is an entire generation of women who genuinely think the world is a horrible, mean place, where every man is just waiting for the opportunity to cause them harm.

I was on my way back from Portland Rescue Mission tonight.  I *just* missed the bus, so I figured I’d walk over Burnside Bridge and catch it on the other side.  This meant walking back passed PRM, where a huge long line of folks are standing each night, waiting to go in and get a meal.

I walk passed all of them – one of them in particular looked right at me, so I looked back at him and smiled, then kept walking.  About half way up the bridge, I noticed this fella was following me.  Any 3rd Waver at this point would probably be thinking “Oh god oh god!  He’s gonna rape me!  HE’S GONNA RAPE ME!!” – yea… on a well lit bridge, down town, right next to a help center, with crowded traffic in traveling in either direction.  Anyway I took my headphones off, then turned to the guy and said hello.

He wanted to introduce himself.  So I did the same.  He said he just wanted to tell me that I’m really beautiful, that he sees me volunteering at the Mission each day, and just wanted to say hi.

How wonderfully sweet!  I thanked him, and then he turned around and went back to the food line.  I actually hope I see him again tomorrow.  That guy was so nice.

I’ve been told that I don’t “really understand” because I’m not really a woman (attacking my gender in lieu of actually having an argument).  But the fact is, this happens to me fairly often.  I’ll be somewhere, and a guy will come over and hit on me, and possibly ask for my number.  If you lack the social and interpersonal skills to know what to say, or how to handle that situation gracefully, then of course anxiety and panic will make you feel uncomfortable – but that’s not the guy’s fault.  He’s not doing anything wrong simply by expressing his interest in you; its your anxiety that needs to be addressed, not him.

As I mentioned at the end of my book, the ultimate result of accepting the 3rd Wave view is the complete inability to find any sense of community. You can’t build relationships with other people in the place where you live, because if a man talks to you on a bus, you believe it’s only because he’s thinking about you in some sexual way. If a man looks at you in the park, he must be staring at you with some sinister intention. If a man pulls out a chair for you, he’s insulting you and thinks you’re a child. It can’t be that white heterosexual cis-men are just being nice, because even if they are just being nice, it means they’re being a “nice-guy” and expecting sex. That’s what all men want, and it’s the only reason they’re nice, because they think about it every 7 seconds. They can’t just be normal people like everyone else.


Everyone should have the opportunity to build a sense of community, without having it robbed from them by a false narrative.

3rd Wave Feminism hurts both men and women. Healthy, well-adjusted people that would otherwise have amicable and fulfilling lives with others in their community, are instead cold and fearful with isolation.  People become afraid to talk to one another, or have any interaction at all. People end up feeling alone in a crowd, or worse, developing a delusional mindset where half of the crowd is just waiting for the right moment to pounce.

Even the simple act of asking someone to smile has become smeared with the accusatory label of “privilege”. I still remember walking by a homeless man sitting on the sidewalk. His skin was badly blemished from weather exposure and a lack of nutrition, and his clothes were torn and stained. But as I walked by, he looked up at me, and gave me a sincere grin. He said “smile!” So I smiled at him, and he smiled back, and then I was on my way. I thought about how poor that guy must have been, and how he just wanted to have a brief interaction with another person. I sleep in my own house, where I’m warm and safe each night, while he’s sleeping in the snow and rain. But I’m oppressed, while he’s the privileged one. His skin is white, he’s probably a cursed heterosexual, and on top of that, he told me to smile.

Building a sense of community isn’t just a matter of finding a group of friends that think and feel the way you do, and providing an echo-chamber for your thoughts and ideas. It’s more than that. It’s feeling safe when you walk out the door in the morning. It’s being able to say hello to the people you pass on your way to the bus (and not having a panic attack when they mention how nice you look). It’s being able to sit down to lunch in a cafeteria without needing your back to the wall “just in case”. It’s a sense that you don’t have to constantly keep your guard up, and the absence of any worrying suspicion that the people around you might hurt you the moment they get a chance.  An absolute perfect example of this can be seen here.
3rd Wave Feminism does not hold up to scrutiny on any level, does not promote any beneficial social cause, and following its tenets and beliefs only serve to deny a person a sense of community. It’s inherently harmful, and wrongly places in a person the feeling of general suspicion and scorn of others based on their gender.
It’s always been my hope is that starting the 4th Wave will begin reversing the effects of this narrative, and replace it with reason and rational thinking. There are real issues that really do affect women, and those issues can and should be addressed. Moreover, women in other countries need our help. If we can build something here, then perhaps one day we will be able to help them as well.

Response to “The Thing All Women Do That You Don’t Know About”

I was scrolling through my newsfeed on facebook, and I came across this gem:

Straight away from the title, figured it was a 3rd Waver post.

Before we get started – anyone here ever play Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past?  I know that’s a weird turn, but bare with me.  Link uses a mirror to transport between the “light world” and the “dark world”.  I’ve sometimes wondered whether or not these weren’t the exact same worlds… when link looks in the mirror, maybe he sees a part of himself that makes him reflect on all of his past actions.  Maybe he questions whether or not he’s really the good guy, and this makes his world seem “dark”… so when he looks away from the mirror, that’s what he sees.  A dark world.  It’s the exact same world, but everything appears different, because when your thoughts are dark, your world is dark.

The movie “A Beautiful Mind”, which was based on the life of John Nash, does a fantastic job of showing how a person can live in a completely different world from the rest of us.  I also explained in another post how people may genuinely be experiencing a mental health challenge if they walk around each day, truly, honestly believing, that everyone around them is a potential threat.

I work in mental health and have received numerous trainings in psychology, and I’m certified as a peer support specialist, as recognized by the state of Oregon.  So I handle topics that I consider might be related to mental health issues a lot more delicately.  If a person really is experiencing a challenge, it’s not something I want to be overzealous with.  Part of the 4th Wave movement is checking the 3rd Wave back into reality, and this is a major part of what motivates me.  People who are mentally and emotionally wounded, who are trying to recover, may have their recovery severely disturbed once they encounter a narrative that tells them all men are rapists, all men control everything, they’re all out to get you, you have to be careful because they’re everywhere, male gaze, man-spreading, man-splaining, so on and so on.

It actually saddens me to imagine what it must be like to be constantly scMental healthared everywhere you go.  You can’t get on a bus without feeling as though you’re getting stared at.  You can’t sit down because the guy’s leg is slightly taking up too much space and you can’t simply ask him to move over.  You can’t walk alone anywhere, because you think you might get raped.  You wake up in the morning and the first thing you do is start preparing yourself for what you believe is a horrible, horrible world, filled full of people who – for whatever reason – are all out to hurt you.

As for the article:

>> There’s this thing that happens whenever I speak about or write about women’s issues. Things like dress codes, rape culture and sexism. I get the comments: Aren’t there more important things to worry about?

^^^ Most of these claims have been refuted a thousand times by multiple peer reviewed sources.  I’ve probably linked this page more times than any other page.  It’s unthinkable how sexism is a rampant systemic thing, when as a woman, I can point the finger at any guy at work, at any time, say he’s harassing me, and HR will launch a full investigation.  Men can’t do that.  I can.  The wage gap is probably the second most common thing I link.

So it’s not that they aren’t important, it’s that they’ve been addressed, and have been refuted with peer reviewed data more times than creationism has been refuted by evolution.

But you still believe it anyway – and this is where we’re getting into the sensitive part of this.

>> We have all learned, either by instinct or by trial and error, how to minimize a situation that makes us uncomfortable. How to avoid angering a man or endangering ourselves.

^^^ If anyone out there reads this, and has had similar experiences, I would first ask why you’re uncomfortable.  Why do you think the interaction you’re currently having will anger a man?  Not a woman – specifically – a man.  Why do you believe you’ll be endangered?

>> We have all, on many occasions, ignored an offensive comment.

^^^ Most adults will encounter a situation where someone says something offensive – either because they don’t know they’re being offensive, or because the offending person is angry and is trying to get under your skin.  Sometimes the best thing is to ignore it and move on.  But if you’re ignoring it because you feel threatened, again, why?

Why do you walk around feeling threatened?  Do you feel this way all the time?  Walking in public, at 2pm in the afternoon, next to a park where children are playing… a man talks to you, and you feel threatened?

>> We’ve all laughed off an inappropriate come-on.

^^^ I get this all the time.  Men hit on me, and of course I enjoy it.  Why wouldn’t I?  A man is giving me his attention because he finds me pretty and attractive.  Why is that a bad thing?  Occasionally a guy might be *really* direct – but hey, some guys are that way.

>> We’ve all swallowed our anger when being belittled or condescended to.

>> It doesn’t feel good. It feels icky. Dirty. But we do it because to not do it could put us in danger or get us fired or labeled a bitch.

^^^ I’ve been living as a woman for 2 years.  I’ve gone to clubs, pubs, meetup groups, and I very frequently do peer support and outreach at the homeless shelters.  I go under bridges and talk with the homeless people who are there, and I do this by myself.  I walk across town pretty frequently.  I talk to whoever wants to talk.

I honestly can’t imagine why I should feel scared that someone – just totally out of the blue – is going to scream at me, or put me in any sort of danger.

Now, if I had experienced a severe and traumatic experience, like domestic violence, then I may be suffering from PTSD.  Symptoms of PTSD involve reliving the experience of the event when you encounter an emotional trigger (that trigger might be talking to a man).  But if you’re experiencing symptoms like this, or if you really believe you are in danger for no other reason than a man is talking to you, I strongly urge you to speak to a counselor.

>> It’s not something we talk about every day. We don’t tell our boyfriends and husbands and friends every time it happens. Because it is so frequent, so pervasive, that it has become something we just deal with.

^^^ No, it isn’t.  Men do not frequently beat women all over town all day long.  You may FEEL like you are always in danger, but you ARE NOT.  You are safe.  The men around you are normal people.  They aren’t going to suddenly attack you just because you spoke to them, or moved the wrong way.

>> Maybe they don’t know that men our dad’s ages actually came on to us while we were working the cash register.

^^^ It’s extremely rare that men sit and *stare* at your cleavage, generally because doing so would get reprimands from everyone standing around him.  It’s not considered socially acceptable.  I mean even if I go out wearing something low cut, and a guy looks at my chest even slightly too long, he’s likely to be corrected by someone else standing nearby.

You might feel you’re being stared at, but I’ve never in my life seen someone stand there and just *STARE*.  Probably their eyes dart down at your chest a few times.  This is perfectly normal and everyone does it.

What’s more, interpersonal skills is something we try to teach clients in DBT therapy.  If someone you don’t feel attracted to is coming on to you (happens to me all the time), what you do is politely tell that person to stop.  An example might go like this:

The guy: Hey baby, come on! Let me get your digits!  (asking for my number)

Me: No, I don’t want to give you my number, but thanks for your interest.

The guy: You know you want to. It looks like you’re about to! Come on, out with it!

Me: Sir, I don’t appreciate this. I’ve said no. I don’t mean to hurt your feelings, but please stop.

100% of the time, the guy stops, and doesn’t feel at all like he’s lost any respect.

It’s because I acknowledged that he was giving his best shot, but also let him know this wasn’t going anywhere, and did so with direct eye contact and a firm voice.  These are skills not everyone has, but interpersonal skills are things that everyone can learn.  If you’re not able to tell the other person that he’s coming on too strong or that you want him to stop, then there’s no way for him to know.  And there is absolutely nothing at all wrong for a woman to express her interest in a man – or a man to express his interest in a woman.

Another example might go like this:

Random guy: (From across the street) Hey there! How you doing sweetheart??

Me: Oh I’m fine, thanks so much for asking. 🙂

Guy: Hey come here for a minute.

Me: No thanks, I gotta go somewhere. Maybe some other time!


Me: *goes over to the person*

Guy: Hey can I get your number?

Me: Sorry, I don’t give my number out to just anyone.

Guy: Oh I’m too ugly?

Me: No sir, that’s not what I meant. If I knew you beforehand, like from work or something, then maybe I would share my number with you. That’s all.

Guy: Can I get a hug?

Me: No you can’t. 🙂 I don’t hug random people either.

Guy: Well alright then. My bad.

Me: Okay! See you later!

This person did nothing wrong by asking for my number. Asking me for a hug was a little rough and maybe lacking of social skills, but you know, there was a time when I lacked social skills too. I don’t blame other people for lacking them. Plus I was never in any danger.

I could be an insensitive bitch by telling him to get lost and storming off.

Some folks would point out that it’s not my job to make him feel better.

Not caring about other people’s feelings is exactly what “insensitive” means.   Being unnecessarily rude to others is what being a “bitch” means.

>> They probably don’t know that the guy in English class who asked us out sent angry messages just because we turned him down.

^^^ What gets me is if I like a guy, and he selfishly turns me down, all my girlfriends will give me total support and say what a total bastard he was for being that way.

But if he likes me, and I turn him down……….. then all my girlfriends will give me total support and somehow, he’s still a total bastard.

It’s normal to have hurt feelings when someone rejects you or turns you down.  Men line up for women and do everything they can to impress us.  They work hard so they can afford the most expensive suit they can find, will go so far as to rent and expensive looking car just for that night, then put on their best “game”, and from there we turn down the ones we don’t like and send them on their way.  We do the choosing, because we’re the ones with the agency ( … in a patriarchy).  But yea, this is generally how the dating game works.

But no, he’s not going to suddenly beat you up.  If this theory were true, then I should see men beating up women at least every few minutes in any club I go to.  Just explain that you’re not interested, with direct eye contact, a firm voice, and with respect, and he’ll get the message, and feel respected.

>> Not showing our suppressed anger and fear and frustration. A quick cursory smile or a clipped laugh will  allow us to continue with our day. We de-escalate. We minimize it. Both internally and externally, we minimize it. We have to. To not shrug it off would put is in confrontation mode more often than most of us feel like dealing with.

^^^ See, this isn’t normal.

Normal, average, mentally healthy people do not walk around constantly fearing assault this way.  I’m friends with lots of women.  We don’t all walk around being smothered by this air of oppression, feeling forever frustrated, holding in all these emotions because we’re surrounded by imagined dangers.

>> We learn at a young age how to do this.

^^^ BINGO!

Somewhere, somehow, you LEARNED this.  The idea that the world is a horrible, mean place, full of people who will jump out and harm you the moment you let your guard down, is a LEARNED style of thinking!  Its not how most people think and feel.

I met one woman near one of the homeless shelters who was convinced everyone around her was a pedophile, and kept her phone wrapped in paper and plastic because she thought people were using it to spy on her.  I’m not licensed to diagnose thought disorders, and I lack the training to do anything more than facilitate basic recovery.  But what I WOULDN’T do is start telling her that “yes, there really ARE pedophiles around here! They’re everywhere!  And they’re listening to your thoughts!”  That would only make her anxiety and insecurity worse.

>> We go through a quick mental checklist. Does he seem volatile, angry? Are there other people around? Does he seem reasonable and is just trying to be funny, albeit clueless? Will saying something impact my school/job/reputation?

^^^ Again, if you go through your day, honestly scared that every person you meet, may at any time, fly into a rage of violence at the drop of a hat, simply because they are male and for no other rason, please, please be aware that these thoughts are not in line with reality, and that you are not actually in danger.  If you are distressed this much, there is help.  Call a help line and ask where mental health resources are in your city.

>> It’s the reality of being a woman in our world.

>> It’s laughing off sexism because we felt we had no other option.

>> It’s feeling sick to your stomach that we had to “play along” to get along.

^^^ This honestly does remind me of the movie A Beautiful Mind.  The poor fella honestly, truly saw a little girl, an FBI agent, and a college friend – and 3 people that only he could see.  They walked around and talked, just like everyone else, and were so real that he finally only became aware when he noticed that the little girl he saw never got any older.

I met a guy on the bus the other day who told me someone was using sorcery on his leg.  I tried to talk to him about this – but I only ended up validating his concern that spells were being cast on his leg.  He got louder and louder, and shouted for the wizard on the bus to stop using sorcery on him.

When I stayed over at the Peter Paulson during my transitional housing, there was a person who was utterly convinced that magicians lived in the building, and they were attracting ghost.  He thought this was what made the building hot during the summer, and he’d often times leave his room, scared to stay inside, because of the ghosts the magicians were summoning.

Some people might read this and laugh, but I work with such people on a regular basis, and it’s terribly sad.  They cannot find any sort of peace.  They live in a completely different world than the rest of us, and their delusions, to them, are totally real.

If you truly believe you live in a world where men control everything, and you have to go through a mental checklist because you’re afraid someone might spontaneously burst into a venomous rage, I really do wish I could help you.  Hopefully this site may help counter some of this narrative and provide you with actual facts and statistics on these issues.  I was once terribly afraid of flying, but after reading up on the actual statistics and seeing that flying was the safest way to travel, I was able to get over my fear.  I’m hoping this site might provide a similar effect.

Science vs Story Telling: How Do You Know What’s Actually Real?

[Special thanks to Jaline Williams for assisting with some of the research for this post.]
Let me tell you a story.

Once upon a time (seriously, sometimes it *actually* starts with “once upon a time”) our country, the United States, was a rich, powerful nation!  We lead the world in science, technology, and social development.  However, one day, our people believed that they were “entitled” – that the world owed them something, and that they could get lots of free benefits by voting the right people into office.  Our country has steadily declined into a welfare state ever since.  (Your news, fair and balanced.)

And that’s the story of our economic woes.  The end!

If you live in the US, you’ve probably heard that story a number of times.  All of our economic problems can be blamed on the poor – and of course the solution is to give the rich more money!

80 richest people

I’m sure it’s because 3,500,000,000 people are all just too lazy and don’t want to work.

Stories of this sort usually have an agenda in mind.  They’re often times appealing to adults for the same reason they’re appealing to children; they make big, complex problems seem simple, easy to grasp, and usually have some sort of built-in solution that goes along with them.  In this story, the problems we face are caused by the poor who don’t want to work, and the solution is to simply stop helping them.

When we actually examine the cause of homelessness, we’ll find that it is not, in fact, caused by a massive wave of people – by the millions – all collectively deciding at around the same time “I shouldn’t have to work!” – then quitting their jobs, sitting on the couch, arms folded, and sitting there until they’re finally evicted.  Homelessness is a multifaceted issue with numerous direct and indirect causes, from the extremely complex matter of the 2008 housing bubble and economic meltdown, to naturally emergent economic properties like gentrification, to the simple facts like the cost of living going up while minimum income hasn’t kept pace.

People often want answers to complex issues, but don’t want to spend the time studying or researching what the causes actually are.  So why listen to science when you can settle for a good story?

Another story is how life came about.  You know the one; in the beginning, there was nothing.  Then god said “Let their be light”, and there was light, and he saw that it was good.  Then on the 4th day, he created the sun and moon.  Which is really amazing!  Because if the sun was created on the 4th day… how were there 4 days???  To be clear, Genesis 1:16 of the King James Version states “And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night“. Apparently the authors of this chapter weren’t aware that the moon doesn’t produce it’s own light.

Of course, the diversity of life on earth is extremely well documented and thoroughly understood, with a considerable number of observable examples that fit perfectly with the theory.

Stories like The Magical Sky Wizard – who tosses hurricanes at homosexuals – often have plot holes and logical inconsistencies.  That’s how you know they’re just stories; reality is consistent, while fiction doesn’t have to be.  For some even simpler examples: why does Superman stand there and let the bullets bounce of his chest, but ducks when they throw the gun at him?  If Batman really were a billionaire, why can’t he fix the economy of Gotham City and get rid of crime?  Fans of these stories usually come up with explanations, but that’s what fans generally tend to do.  They like remaining true to their fiction, and they don’t want their story ruined.

At this point, you might have a sense of how stories (we’ll interchangeably call them “narratives”) differ from a scientific theory.  Lets explore further so we have a more articulated understanding of exactly how they differ from one another.


The following is borrowed from AronRa, in his series “Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism”.

—– —– —– —– —– —–
A fact is any element of verifiably accurate data. “Verifiably accurate” means it can still be shown to be true even to those who don’t want to believe it. Facts alone do not make “evidence” until they collectively prove one scenario over any other (some facts may be strong enough to do this).

Evidence is when factual circumstances which are accounted for, and indicative of one particular explanation over any other. Gather enough evidence together, and you’ve got proof.

Proof, then, is an overwhelming preponderance of physical and logical evidence showing – beyond contention – the accuracy of particular position. (100% absolute proof exists only in mathematics)
—– —– —– —– —– —–

Let’s play with these for a moment.

Say you’re accused of killing Mr. Neckbeard. A knife was found in Mr. Neckbeard’s back early on the morning of June 10th. The knife belonged to you. The first thing the judge and prosecuting attorney do is congratulate you, and celebrate into the wee hours of the morning! We HATE neckbeards!!!

… but ok seriously, it’s a fact that the knife belonged to you, and it’s a fact he was found dead with it in his back. But those do not make “evidence”, because remember, evidence must be indicative of one particular explanation over any other! There’s not enough evidence to convict you (or amount to proof) of any wrong doing.

Even if we had eye-witness accounts and testimonies from a bunch of other people that you hated Neckbeard, that still does not prove anything. Facts and evidence are not enough – we need an overwhelming preponderance of physical and logical evidence, and that, we don’t have.

However, you can still be convicted for murder. Here’s why.


You and I do not understand or experience life through a system based only on facts, evidence, and proof. No one does. We also do not experience life only through our senses and thoughts. We need some way to tie it all together; who we are, who everyone else is, where we stand, what’s happening to us, why it’s happening, what’s happened to us before and what’s likely to happen in the future – all of this is done by a method of internal “story-telling”. This includes the inner voice in our minds that dictates the world that happens around us, and our understanding of that world, put together in a story-format.  In psychology, this is closely related to the concept of “schema“.

Many different people may go through the same tragedy; some come out as heroes, others come out as survivors, and others come out as victims. The difference is the narrative each of them writes for themselves, and the way they caste themselves in that story.

We make stories not jumale dangerst for us; we make them for everyone around us. And those stories are occasionally rewritten, based on what we experience and how we feel at any given time. I remember sitting at the table in the community room at my old building, and someone from my floor walked by and looked in my grocery bag. After she left, another friend comes over and says “She was nosey!” I said “She was just curious.” We’ve clearly written two different stories about what just happened.

In the theoretical courtroom that didn’t have enough evidence to convict you, the jurors have their own story where you’re guilty. A good lawyer knows that he doesn’t have to PROVE anything to a jury; he only has to CONVINCE a jury! This means (usually) starting off on a strong groundwork of facts and evidence, but then playing and building on created or pre-existing narratives with emotional appeals.  How surprising is it when an all-white jury finds a black man guilty?

Because narratives are how we view the world, it is indeed possible to have one that’s closely in line with the facts.  Narratives are not automatically wrong.  But because they often incorporate story-telling elements, like assigning motivations to the behavior of others that is often unverified by science (this group of people really only want this / do that / believe such-and-such because ____ ), they usually do end up with conclusions that are not concordant with the facts or evidence, and are sometimes in complete contradiction.

This is what separates 4th Wavers from other websites focused on feminism and social justice.  4th Wavers does not rely on narratives.   I may sometimes use narratives to counter other narratives, if only to show that an alternative story is possible, but most of what you find here is checked against other sources and thoroughly challenged before it goes up.  After it goes up, the comments section is left open so that the content is subject to ongoing public review.  That’s how science works.

In fact, as a way of *proving* we do not have an agenda, and are not committed to any sort of narrative, I will not only change the material in a post if someone points out the errors, I will give them a shout out for having caught the error.  That’s how science works!

Occasionally I have an idea for a topic, and begin working, but I can’t find enough evidence to back what I had in mind, and have to abandon the idea.  In fact, right around somewhere in here, I was going to add that “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize” meme.  But, after doing some very brief research (it’s one of the first results that comes up), it turns out that this ain’t legit.  It’s important to check *everything*, because if I don’t, someone else will, and I’ll end up having to give them credit somewhere in the post.  That’s how science works!

Summed up, the differences are:

Science Narratives
You can test each part of a claim to see if it’s true. Usually cannot test parts – or any – of a claim. When you are able to test parts, they disprove the original claim.
If a claim is tested and it fails, science changes so the untrue part is corrected. If a claim is tested and it fails, the results are ignored or dismissed, and the narrative continues unchanged.
Is consistent – all the facts fit together and are mutually supportive. Unknowns are admitted. Is not consistent – the claims often contradict one another, and unknowns are filled in with more unfounded claims.
You are strongly encouraged to question and challenge claims, and can reap huge rewards for a successful challenge. You are strongly discouraged from questioning or challenging claims, and will be ostracized or attacked for doing so.

Want to find out quickly which of these a person falls into?  During a discussion, just ask this simple question:

“What would change your mind?”

If the answer is “evidence!” – then you’re probably dealing with an intellectually honest skeptic who relies on factual verification.  Bonus points if they can go into details, and tell you exactly what kind of evidence.

If the answer is “nothing” – then you’re probably dealing with someone who’s bought into the narrative, believes what they’re told, and isn’t interested in facts.  In short, this is what separates 3rd Wavers from 4th Wavers.

An apologist is often someone who is very highly skilled at dressing up narratives to sound like science.  Lets take a look at an example of this in the form of flat earth “theory”.  You may have heard of these folks.

What’s really awesome about this is that all the observations explained round-earth theory can also be explained by the flat earth theory! The shadow cast on the moon by a round earth could also be made by a flat disk. The sun appears to go “around the earth” only because it’s small, hovers around the disk in a circle like fashion, and simply disappears into the distance. And how do you explain gravity? Well, there is no gravity – the flat disk of earth is simply moving through space at 9.8 meters per second (Update 3/28/16 – this should read “the earth is accelerating through space at 9.8 meters per second.  Thanks to Memento Mori for catching the error!) And all the photos we have of a round earth?   Those are actually all part of a money making conspiracy by – you guessed it – rich, powerful, white men, in faraway offices, telling us all what to believe (sound familiar?)

This makes for a really interesting puzzle to solve. Each of the flat-earthers explanations actually do explain every observation equally well as the round earth explanations. Each and every “Then how do you explain” question has an answer that sounds entirely plausible, and may even come off as quite convincing, especially if explained by a practiced orator using skilled rhetoric and perfectly delivered emotional appeals.

So what’s the answer then? How can we determine if Flat-Earthism is science, or narrative?  Look back to the chart from earlier.  The “facts” put forth by narratives are inconsistent, and not mutually supportive.  Each explanation that flat-earth theory gives only addresses observation immediately presented. Explanations do not mutually help each other explain the entire concept the way science does, and falter when scrutinized more closely and compared with other evidence. Let’s take a look and compare them.

Flat Earth Model

Observation Explanation
Gravity The earth is moving through space, creating the illusion of gravity
Sunsets The sun is actually only 32 miles across, and disappears into the distance
Photos of Earth This is a government cover up so NASA has an excuse to draw money
Seasons The tiny ball of sun is sometimes closer and sometimes further away
Falling off the edge There is a giant ice wall which holds the waters onto the disk and keeps things from falling off.


When more closely scrutinized and compared with other evidence: gravity can be seen not just when an apple falls from a tree, but because the ground moves up at an infinitesimally short distance to meet the apple. A sun 32 miles across cannot create or maintain an internal nuclear fusion reaction, plus solar eclipses would be impossible to explain. An outright contradiction in this model can be seen on the Flat Earth wiki page concerning stars:

—– —–
Each star in a cluster is attracted to one another through gravitational vectors.
—– —–

We’re not supposed to have gravity, remember? If we did, the earth would pull itself into a ball. It’s why all planetary bodies are spherical.

Pointing out these inconsistencies may causes frustration on the part of someone who’s bought into the narrative. Rather than be corrected because “Oh, I didn’t consider that” in the search for the truth, they’re being contradicted in the deal they’ve already bought and paid for. Explanations start becoming more and more divergent – “Well, stars have gravity, but our planet doesn’t!” … because physical laws don’t apply when we don’t want them to.

Can you draw some parallels here to 3rd Wave Feminism?

Now lets compare to science.

Astrophysics Model

Observation Explanation
Gravity This is an inherent property of matter which is equally below us at any point on the planet, because the earth is round
Sunsets As the round earth revolves around the sun, it also rotates. We can go into space and watch this happen.
Photos of Earth It looks round because the goddam planet is round!
Seasons Earth tilts on its axis
Falling off the edge There is no edge. Gravity pulls everyone towards the center of a spherical earth

These are all consistent with each other, mutually support the same conclusion, and fits perfectly with other evidence. Also, each explanation is independently verifiable; the cause and effect do not rely on each other (circular reasoning). We don’t say gravity is real because the planet is round, and the planet is round because gravity is real. Both the roundness of the planet and the force of gravity can be tested and confirmed on their own merits.

Now lets consider the parallels within Feminist Theory.

Third Waver Model

Observation Explanation
Most CEOs are men We live in a patriarchy where men are given power just because they’re men, and women are kept away from that power
Men are paid more yearly Men devalue women, and express this by intentionally paying them less
Women aren’t found in male dominated fields, especially congress Men hate women and keep them out of these fields by sending them invalidating messages
Men like looking at swimsuit calendars and scantily clad women Because men see women as objects
Rape is everywhere on college campuses Because of male privilege given to men by the patriarchy creates rape culture

Each explanation answers only the surface observation, and as a whole, causes numerous inconsistencies.  If men are in power, and are oppressive against women, they wouldn’t continually pass and enforce laws that specifically improve things for women.

Black vs Male

The exact same data that illustrates disadvantages for blacks, somehow indicates privilege for men.

Rape is not everywhere on college campuses. <— From the Bureau of Justice Statistics: college women experience less rape than non-college women between ages of 18 to 24.  How much less?  6.1 per 1,000.  That’s roughly 0.6%.  To put that in perspective, the 1 in 5 claim is an exaggeration of about 35 times what it really is.  So this is just false.

If rape culture (the idea that society thinks rape is permissible) were real, why did the conviction of rape carry the death penalty until 1977?  Why is rape the only crime where you’re guilty until proven innocent – and also where you can never be innocent?

If women were paid less than men, why don’t companies hire only women?  The answer may be that men hate women so much, that companies hire men anyway, even if they cost more, and are willing to spend billions.  But if this were true, why are there such stringent sexual harassment laws everywhere in the work place?  Why are women given legislation, like the Pregnancy Discrimination Act of 1978 which clearly benefits only women?  (Done by an all-male congress, which is patriarchy, remember?)  Why would we see clear data where women earn more than men?  How do some women manage to succeed in male dominated fields if they’re kept out?  Did they leave the glass ceiling open, and the women crawled through when no one was looking?  Whether she wins or not, how the hell is Hillary Clinton doing so well in the presidential race?

Now lets try science again.

Fourth Waver Model

Observation Explanation
Most CEOs are men Men have greater social pressure to succeed, and are willing to take more risks
Men are paid more yearly Statistically men work longer hours, call in sick less often, and choose work that is harder, as confirmed by over 50 peer reviewed studies on the subject
Women aren’t found in male dominated fields, especially congress This is by personal choice; women choose not to take jobs in the fishing industry, where fatalities are 60 times higher than the national average. There’s nothing stopping them from applying.
Men like looking at swimsuit calendars and scantily clad women Because they’re straight, heterosexual men. Gee, imagine that. I’m lesbian and I like it too (but for some reason it’s not objectifying when I do it).
Rape is everywhere on college campuses This is simply not true.   Besides the statistics seen earlier (science), if 1 in 5 women were raped every year, then in 20 years, everyone should have been raped.

(Update 4/3/16: Anthony Stalter points out that the original study didn’t say 1 in 5 per year – after looking at the claim again, it appears to more accurately be “1 in 5 during their time in college” – thanks for keeping an eye out, and helping us improve!)

The answers in the above chart are consistent with each other, consistent with independently verifiable evidence (the cause and result don’t rely on each other for support), and mutually help explain what we see.

How To Build Your Own Narrative

This lesson wouldn’t be complete if I didn’t show you how to create your very own made-up bullsh*t so you can raise money for some inane “social justice” cause, or so you can just troll your conspiracy theorist friends.  It’s easy to do!  In fact, its so easy, that it might feel like you’re missing something.

Start with a plot, and keep it simple; people are poor and want hand outs because they just don’t want to work / god is real and you only deny him because you love your sins / men hate women and oppress them because they want privilege.  It only needs to sound vaguely agreeable, like it *might* somehow be true, and then just build around that with emotional pleading, and repeat the same basic lines again and again.  People will eventually start to believe it’s true.  Remember, the facts don’t have to add up – they only have to explain the surface of what’s being observed at the moment.  Most people don’t like to think too hard, nor do they like to do their own research.  But if someone does start asking questions, just create more narrative right on the spot, and claim it’s either divinely inspired, or that you have some special insight (and don’t worry, consistency isn’t important, so you can always change your answers later).

If people start questioning too much, or scrutinizing your claim by asking for evidence, shout them down with insults, suggest they have sinister motives, and most important of all, don’t forget to be triggered!  End the discussion by claiming you need a safe space, and encourage everyone to leave with you.  That way your ideas can’t be challenged at all.

changing feminist narrative

Whoever made this, you are a fracking genius. Thank you.

If you still need help getting started, just borrow a format from a narrative already established.  There’s plenty to choose from!

Take for example:

Okay, so here are 5-sexist-comments-towards-men-that-you-should-avoid (not going to bother actually inserting a bunch of annoying gifs).

“You look good”.


This is sexist because it assumes that men look bad. Because men look bad, they are judged by their appearance. We should judge everyone based on the content of their character.  Why do women insist on objectifying men?  It’s perhaps because they were raised that way.  We can teach women to value men for something besides how they look.

“What’s your favorite colour?”


Colour has long been a point of contention in human history. Entire wars have been fought over colour; the Civil War [hyperlinks to more drivel] was fought over this very thing, and millions of men died in that war.  Think before you mention something to your man that might be so hurtful.

“What do you do? / What’s your job?”


Unemployment has been unbearable since 2008, when the economy crashed, and a number of people lost their homes. Men who had previously worked for decades at companies to keep their families fed and housed, were now on assistance and seeking shelter.  Women can be good allies by remaining sensitive to what matters most for men.

“Excuse me, do you know where _____ is?”


Men are often told they have a better ‘sense of direction’ – and men have had to suffer from this stereotype for decades. This awful, classist notion, began in the 50s, when men first started being used this way, and men have had to bare the burden of this expectation until this very day.  Remember: men are people too!  Don’t view them as walking compasses.



Saying hello to a man can be sexist. It violates a man’s personal space, and can make him feel unsafe. Moreover, the word itself even begins with “Hell” – a place of eternal torment. How would you feel if someone said this to you just for who you are?  Would you like it if someone greeted you this way?  Always remember to respect the spaces of others, and don’t say hello unless you have permission.  Consent benefits everyone!


Finally, here’s another fantastic job at constructing a narrative using the exact same techniques that 3rd Wavers use every day.

Try making up your own narrative in the comments below!







When They Just Can’t Win, Part 2: Patriarchy in the US

Feel free to link this page anytime you’re in a discussion over the myth of patriarchy!

So I found myself in a discussion on UltraViolet’s thread, which you can see here: (and in case they see this and make the community private, the story being discussed is here: ).  For those of you who don’t know, UltraViolet is a 3rd Waver site, much like Upworthy and Everyday Feminism.  So naturally when I opened the comments section, I saw the usual rhetoric, claims of victimhood, and man-hating that I’m sure most of our regular visitors are familiar with.

During the course of the discussion, I decided to post some research related to the concept of the US being a “patriarchy”, which you’ll see in a bit.  It was one of those things where after I was done, I thought “this is actually pretty good.  I could put this up on 4th Wavers later.”

But as the exchange went on, as is typical when one side starts losing the argument, they contacted the page administrators and got them to delete the thread.  Can’t win the argument?  Time for censorship!

This is why I make a habit of copy-pasting everything I post.  ^_^

So here it is.  Enjoy!

Michelle Mullen

Because like it or not, we live in a patriarchal society. As long as men are the primary aggressors in sexual assault, this topic will NEVER get as much attention as it deserves.

Like · Reply · 40 · 15 hrs
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Athena Brown
Megan Elizabeth
Megan Elizabeth Athena, yes it is a patriarchal society and yes men are the primary aggressors in sexual assault. Look up the statistics of who rapists are please. Over 90% are male.
Like · Reply · 4 · 9 hrs · Edited
Megan Elizabeth
Megan Elizabeth Here, I did it for you. According to “exploring the dimensions of human sexuality” by Greenberg Breuss and Haffner, 93.7% of rapists are male and 6.3% are female. Rape is overwhelmingly a male-committed crime. Also, 99% of women and 85% of men are raped by a male according to a study by the Boston Area Rape Crisis Center.
Like · Reply · 1 · 7 hrs · Edited
Madolyn D Jenkins
Like · Reply · 4 · 8 hrs
Megan Elizabeth
Megan Elizabeth YES MADOLYN YESCaps lock fury
Erin McClellan
Erin McClellan GTFO Athena wow.
Like · Reply · 1 · 8 hrs
Giancarlo Jusino Sánchez
Giancarlo Jusino Sánchez In those studies rape is defined as the act of penetrating the mouth, vagina, or anus. Essentially, females are excluded by definition.
Athena Brown

Athena Brown You think we live in a patriarchy? Fine. Lets go over this step by step.

[Sh*t’s about to get real.]

First we’ll begin by using the absolute loosest definition of patriarchy so that it has the greatest possible chance of survival against rational inquiry; it’s a system wherein “masculinity is favored over femininity”. That’s it! That’s the only definition we’re using.
If that were true:
— Why is it totally okay to beat a man in public, but men can’t even LOOK at a woman without it being labeled and denounced?
— Why would we have laws allowing women to file charges of sexual harassment because of a swimsuit calendar in your cubicle?
— Why would we lower the physical requirements of women joining police departments (, the military (, and remove tests for fire departments altogether (, even when it’s been repeatedly demonstrated that women who actually bothered training would have no such need?
— Why would I, as a woman, be allowed to board the bus ahead of someone who was clearly standing in line before me? Why is it when I drop something, three different men reach to pick it up? Why am I always allowed to use the restroom when the sign clearly says “no public restroom”? Why do I not have to pay for my own meals on dates? Why can I use the men’s room if there’s someone in the lady’s room, yet if a man tried that, he’d probably be arrested?
— Why are convicted killers of women more likely to get the death penalty? In a patriarchy. Where masculinity is more valued than femininity.
— Why are women almost never given the death penalty? In a patriarchy. Where femininity is not as valued as masculinity.
— Why do we punish men just for the accusation of rape, but there’s virtually no recourse at all towards women who falsely accuse men of rape? If we valued men and not women, shouldn’t this be… reversed somehow?
— Why would the suicide rate for men be 3 times higher than for women? In a society where they’re more valued?
— Why are you able to stand up in public, anywhere in the modern day US, and shout “WOMEN ARE SMARTER THAN MEN!” – and get applause, yet if you did that same exact thing and shouted men were smarter than women, you’d get beaten up? No need for hyperlinks here – just go out and try it yourself.
— Why is it I can walk into a club wearing lipstick and eyeliner and have men fawn over me, yet for a man to have women fawn over him, he’d have to be a billionaire? What does money matter when men are more valued than women?
— Why would the Justice Department have an entire branch set up just for violence against women, even though domestic violence has been shown repeatedly to happen at equal rates to both men and women?
— Why would we have Rape Shield laws?  How did those get passed in a patriarchy?
— If a building is on fire, how many people would rush in, risking their lives, to save Bob, the big fat bald-headed accountant? How many would rush in to save Tammy, the bikini model? Almost everyone goes for the model – but why, when Bob is more valuable because penis *cough* I MEAN “patriarchy”?
— If a woman is inside her house naked, and a man walks by and looks in the window, he’s a peeping tom, and gets arrested. Yet if it’s a man inside the house naked and a woman walks by, it’s still the man who gets arrested.
— Why are we all okay with men being called nearly ever name under the sun ( ), but we need to “ban bossy”?
— I have a pass that allows me to eat dinner at some of the shelters around town.  Every evening when dinner is served, the women get to go first.  Why?  When we’re not as valued?
— Why does 97% of alimony cases go to women? – shouldn’t it go to men?  Who are in power?  Who are in charge?  Who can just FORCE THE WOMAN to hand over her money and belongings to the man after a divorce?  (You know, like they do in the middle east?)
If you want to see what patriarchy looks like, just imagine a world where we flip all of these around. Imagine living in a country where is the exact opposite of everything we have in the US now. That might arguably be a “patriarchy”.
Is there any such place on earth that exists right now? Are there places where women are treated like trash just for being women? Why, yes, there is, as a matter of fact, glad you asked!!
And that’s probably the best indicator that we DON’T have that in the US. And that’s the answer to the original question put forward; yes, patriarchy is real, but not in any developed first world nation. WE DO NOT HAVE PATRIARCHY IN THE US!
The job 4th Wave Feminists have in front of us is to acknowledge legitimate women’s issues and get to work on them, while debunking the myths created by the 3rd Wave that hurt everyone.
Athena Brown
Athena Brown As for
>> “Here, I did it for you. According to “exploring the dimensions of human sexuality” by Greenberg Breuss and Haffner, 93.7% of rapists are male and 6.3% are female. Rape is overwhelmingly a male-committed crime.”
^^^ This conflicts with absolutely all other peer reviewed literature, especially that coming from the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network, the Bureau of Justice Statistics, and the FBI. So either all of the statistics in our judicial system are completely wrong, or the Greenberg study is flawed.
But of course I’m not going to use a simple dichotomy as an attempt to dodge. Link me to the actual study. I googled the title and name, and it appears to have come from a book.
I’d rather you link to the actual study, if you don’t mind, and we’ll go through and look at the methodology. I’ll post relevant parts of the study here to show whether they either do or don’t logically follow.
Barbara Mislan

Barbara Mislan Athena Brown are you kidding? An obscure reference to a man fired because of a calendar confirms we don’t have Patriarchy? Haha ok.

Here you are – 9 out of 10 rape victims are women. References at the bottom.

Athena Brown

Athena Brown

1) I listed nearly 20 different examples and provided links for nearly all of them, and you’re pretending like I provided only one.
2) The example you’re referring to is a criterion for sexual harassment in the workplace, as advised by Business and Legal Resources, and applies to every workplace all across the United States. How is that “obscure”?
I get that you’re a 3rd Waver and your worldview demands that you conform specifically to that particular narrative, but are you really unaware of the creationist tactics you’re using here?
3) The claim was not how many victims are women. It was Megan Elizabeth who claimed 90% of rapist were male. But besides that, the claim being made in RAINN’s own report comes from
“U.S. Department of Justice. 2003 National Crime Victimization Survey. 2003”
— it’s easy to google (which I’m sure you didn’t, because your goal is not to understand the actual truth, but to reinforce a preconceived narrative). You can read the actual report they’re using as a source here:
It’s worth noting that according to these numbers, rape accounted for a whopping 0.07% victim rate in 2003. How’s that pan out for your famous 1 in 5 number?
But anyway, I’ll let you look at the report, and you tell me what’s wrong with the 9 out of 10 number. HINT: the answer’s actually already been given to you in this thread.

(and if you’re *REALLY* slow, here’s another hint: )

Michelle Mullen
Michelle Mullen Athena Brown So you think WOMEN rule the world? Really? No. This IS a patriarchal society, because men have most of the power in it. Women are making gains, but we have to FIGHT for every single thing we get. That includes the right of bodily autonomy. In this society (and it will get even worse if the rightwing “christians” have their way), the dead have more bodily autonomy than women, especially if we get pregnant. You can deny it all you want, but it’s the truth. You’re entitled to your own opinion, but you can’t present that opinion as fact. And while women CAN rape, it is BY FAR men who do it the most – and then try to excuse it many times with crap like “what was she wearing,” “was she drinking,” etc. Victim blaming (when they even admit that a woman IS a victim of rape and don’t try to change the definition of rape) at its worst. Anyone who tries to dispute that is delusional.
Like · Reply · 2 · 7 hrs
Erin McClellan
Erin McClellan And don’t fucking insult people’s intelligence either, you ableist jerk.
Athena Brown

Athena Brown >> Athena Brown So you think WOMEN rule the world?

^^^ No. It’s ridiculous to suggest it’s either a patriarchy or a matriarchy, as if only one or the other can exist.

We live in a mostly egalitarian constitutional republic where everyone can participate in public events and free elections (though some elements of racism still do exist, and men clearly don’t have the same power as women).

>> This IS a patriarchal society, because men have most of the power in it.

^^^ Again, I just provided you some 20 examples showing where women have the power. I’ve yet to see any instance where exclusively men have “power”.

>> That includes the right of bodily autonomy.

^^^ Roe v Wade has existed since 1973. If men had power, why did it pass? If men have power, why don’t they just overturn the ruling?

Oh, right, because women can vote, and women’s interests groups can stop them.

>> That includes the right of bodily autonomy. In this society (and it will get even worse if the rightwing “christians” have their way)

^^^ But why haven’t they gotten their way over the last 40 years? If men have all the power?

>> You’re entitled to your own opinion, but you can’t present that opinion as fact.

^^^ I gave you 20 DOCUMENTED EXAMPLES!!!! Seriously!

You haven’t presented any facts. Show me some evidence where “men have all the power”.

>> And while women CAN rape, it is BY FAR men who do it the most

^^^ According to whom? Earlier I posted statistics from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Bureau of Justice Statistics, among many other sources, demonstrating that this wasn’t the case (I guess the FBI criminal database counts as opinion because it disagrees with your narrative?)

>> and then try to excuse it many times with crap like “what was she wearing,” “was she drinking,” etc.

^^^ Over the last 60 years, there has never been 1 single instance in any mainstream media ever published (TV, magazines, newspaper, radio, etc) where rape was reported, and either of those statements were presented by the report as representing a consensus view.

That’s a fact. Show me 1 single instance where such a thing was reported and was accepted as mostly true by the general public.

What’s really mind blowing here is that a conviction of rape carried with it the death penalty until 1977. WHY ON EARTH would that happen, if men had all the power and we lived in a patriarchy?

Why would rape STILL be punishable by death in 2 states?

……… in a patriarchy? (make that example “opinion” number 21.)

>> Victim blaming (when they even admit that a woman IS a victim of rape and don’t try to change the definition of rape)

^^^ Honestly, in the post before this one, I even posted a link to where they changed the definition of rape in 2014.

You are literally not even reading what I’m posting. You’re reading 3 sentences, then firing off with nonsense I’ve already corrected.

>> Anyone who tries to dispute that is delusional.

^^^ — yes, delusional.

If reality doesn’t fit your story, then REALITY ISN’T REAL.


Then I went to dinner at PRM, and when I got back, the thread was deleted.


So like I said, feel free to link this post anytime you need to check a 3rd Waver back into reality “delusion”.

Answering Amandla Stenberg: Don’t Cash Crop On My Cornrows

This is a response to a youtube video made by Amandla Stenberg, which you can see here:

It seems the analysis I made on the video was rather popular, so I wanted to share it here too.

I listened up until 3:30 before I heard anything objectionable. Prior to this was nothing more than observations of white people making music as per black culture. While this is called “cultural appropriation” (and I recently posted a full response to that nonsense here) nothing at all is explained about why it’s wrong, or how it’s harmful to anyone.

So no case is being made as to why this “cultural appropriation”, as it were, is a problem. If anything, it seems to show a wide degree of acceptance towards what used to be a disliked minority. Everyone sees this style as cool enough to participate in.

But at the 3:30 mark:

> “I have a problem when you try to call it Hip Hop . . . it’s like a cultural smudging”

^^^ No explanation for what she means by “cultural smudging”. But she goes on:

> “All this says to white kids is ‘oh yea you’re great, you’re amazing, you can do whatever you put your mind to’, and it says to black kids “you don’t even own what you created for yourself”.

^^^ This statement is confusing on several levels.

Where, when, and how, in *ANY* of the previous information, did we see a segregation in messages, in which white kids were praised and black kids were denounced? How on earth is a white kid wearing corn-rows telling black kids they don’t own… corn-rows? I’m white, so my hair is straight. It’s utter nonsense to then say “I own straight hair” – or, my skin is white, and whites have straight hair, therefore white culture “owns” it.

American culture includes cowboys. If a person in Japan dresses up like a cowboy, who in America is going to care? This does not say to us “we don’t own our own culture”. This young lady then tries to clarify:

> “cultural appropriation and cultural exchange [are different because] appropriation occurs when a style leads to racist generalizations where it originated, but is deemed as high fashion, cool, or funny, when the privilege take it for themselves.”


^^^ And here is essentially where the case falls apart. Accordingly, appropriation only occurs when 1) The item in question was at first a part of racist generalization, and 2) Is later widely accepted and no longer considered part of racist generalization.

So this means that if corn-rows, or any other black style, was once associated with racism, it must *ALWAYS* be associated with racism forevermore – because if it ever becomes accepted, then it’s “appropriation”. If people stop being racist and start accepting the culture, and wanting to be a part of it, that’s appropriation.

This is problematic, because once people stop being racist, they generally stop avoiding the culture they once deemed inferior. So what’s being suggested? That we have some enforceable rule that prevents white people from ever forgetting that racism once existed, and never ever wearing corn-rows? Do we need to replace this kind of acceptance with permanent suspicion and racial divisions? ……. all because of a hair style?

The young woman then adds:

>”Cultural appropriation occurs when the appropriator is not aware of the deep significance of the culture they are partaking in”

^^^ First, how does any of this actually matter? How does this impact the day-to-day lives of anyone, on any practical level? Second, does this girl eat spaghetti? ……. is she aware of the deep cultural significance of Italy? If she drives a Subaru, is she aware of the deep cultural significance of Japan? If she wears clothes made in Malaysia, kamu bercakap bahasa Malayu? If she takes martial arts, is she aware of the deep cultural significance of China? And if she is – if the answer on any of these is “yes” – how does that change anything? The spaghetti doesn’t taste different, the car drives the same as it did before, and kamu belejar bahasa capak lah!! (I lived in Malaysia for a few years) The idea of cultural appropriation does not hold up to scrutiny, and only becomes more ridiculous the more it’s examined.

A Response to Cultural Appropriation (Yes, To The Entire Theory)

Cultural Appropriation is a popular topic in the field of social justice, so if you’ve been following stories centered around racism, privilege, and so on, undoubtedly you’ve heard this term also come up.  As per our usual method, we’ll start out with defining what this word actually means by using definitions put forth by it’s proponents.

And of course we’ll get this ball rolling with one of the most popular sources on the internet (it’s in the top 5 search results every time I start researching one of these for some ungodly reason).  According to the source of all that is wrong with the internet Everyday Feminism, a basic definition would beCultural appropriation is when somebody adopts aspects of a culture that’s not their ownRight off the bat, that sounds like something that wouldn’t pass rational inquiry, but first lets focus on getting our terms straight.  Everyday Feminism goes on to say it’s a “power dynamic in which members of a dominant culture take elements from a culture of people who have been systematically oppressed by that dominant group“.

My ancestors also invented the justice system, democracy, and modern infrastructure. Of course I was born in 1981 and had nothing to do with any of that - but for some reason I'm always included when it's genocide or slavery.

My ancestors also invented the justice system, democracy, and most of the modern infrastructure you now enjoy. Of course I was born in 1981 and had nothing to do with any of that – but for some reason I’m always included when the topic is genocide or slavery.

This definition goes on to emphasize “power dynamic” as the condition that differentiates this term apart from “cultural exchange” (where people share cultures) and “cultural assimilation” (where people adopt certain conditions because it will make life easier).

This definition is also concordant with other sources, such as what I could find here, and here.  I’ll be focusing mostly on EF as a source, because they not only give the generally accepted definition, but give a list of practical examples to back up their claims (or in other words, they are the best source – and that’s really saying something).

Several possible outcomes are stated to result from the practice of cultural appropriation.  Some of them are:

1) It trivializes historical oppression (like calling Native Americans “Redskins” in the NFL)
2) It makes being racist okay (like writing a positive review on Mexican food in a “shady neighborhood”)
3) It’s cool if a white person does it, but “ethnic” if a person from that culture does it.
4) It allows the dominant group to profit from the oppressed group in a way the oppressed group cannot
5) It allows one race to be rewarded for the accomplishments of another race (like Elvis being the inventor of Rock and Roll, while this was actually invented by blacks).

To go straight ahead and bat these out of the way…

— 1) No one thinks the Trail of Tears was trivial because we have a baseball team by that particular team.  I’ve never heard anyone say “The Native Americans had it good – just look at our baseball team!”

For cultural appropriation to happen under the stated definition, it must necessarily included 1. a power dynamic, and 2. something being taken from the oppressed group.  So while this might technically fit the definition, it doesn’t necessarily lead to this outcome.

— 2) You’re using yelp reviews of “good restaurant, bad neighborhood” as proof that eating Mexican food makes racism towards Mexicans acceptable.  Those damn yelp reviews!!

What’s more, I’m still not seeing anything being “taken by a dominant group” through a “power dynamic”.  This comes dangerously close to presupposing that one race is always dominant and the other is always oppressed for no other reason than race – which is the definition of racism.

— 3) The comparison in the third example is that showing up to a corporate job interview wearing cornrows would be something that would bar a black woman from employment, while a white girl in a fashion magazine with cornrows is seen as edgy.  Can anyone not see the difference between the expectations at a corporate job interview and a fashion magazine?  Or how a white person showing up to such an interview with cornrows would be equally rejected?

Black people do not own cornrows anymore than white people own straight hair, and black women straighten their hair all the time.

— 4) The example used is a white woman selling Native American items because she can get a home mortgage loan to start a business, while a Native American cannot, because reservation land can’t be mortgaged.  However, the Native American woman can mortgage a private home just fine – she just can’t mortgage reservation land because it belongs TO THE RESERVATION.  There’s nothing barring her from starting her own business.

If the simple act of making and selling something that originated in another culture was the same as “a dominant culture taking something through a power dynamic”, then utterly everything you’ve ever bought or sold is an example of cultural appropriation.

— 5) Elvis became famous for rock and roll, a form of music which came from rhythm and blues, invented by black people.  However, black people invented rhythm and blues from church hymns, which were invented by white people.

Further, this directly conflicts with the second possible outcome given; the music from black people may very well have helped them be seen more favorably, which would have helped end racism, not promote it.

Now lets go ahead and get the next few out of the way.

6) It misrepresents marginalized cultures – like how dressing up as Pocahontas ignores the real story of her life.
7) It perpetuates stereotypes, plus you’re pretending to be a race you’re not.
8) White people can do things that people of other cultures were once punished for doing.
9) My right to wear your stuff trumps your feelings about it.

So then.

— 6) First, dressing up like Pocahontas isn’t what created all the misconceptions about her life.  This is a normal part of how history passes down through generations.  It often gets distorted as one retelling follows another.  For example:

What’s more, it’s pretty well known that when Disney gets a hold of something, they spruce it up quite a bit.  And of course there’s always actual history books laying around if you care to improve your knowledge (What??  Take personal responsibility for my own education???).  There’s also Crash Course on youtube if books aren’t your style.

Either way, no matter what historical figure your daughter dresses up as, I’m willing to bet you have a distorted understanding of who they actually were.

Second, where’s the power dynamic?  Your daughter could dress up as Susan B Anthony.  She’s not doing that because she has power over Susan’s indigenous culture.  Also, what’s being “taken”?  What does Susan or Pocahontas or anyone else actually losing as a result of a kid dressing up like them?

— 7) Honestly?  If I have cornrows… I’m pretending to be another race???

The primary claim on this one is that Katy Perry dressing up as a geisha perpetuates a stereotype about Asian women, but this confuses geishas with Asian women.  It’s as though Everyday Feminism believes we can’t tell the difference, or that we’re all stupid animals who can’t understand that there might be more than one side to a person.  Yes, an Asian woman can be passive and submissive.  They can also be domineering.  They can also be friendly.  They can also be angry.  And that’s not different women – the SAME WOMAN can be all those things throughout the day.  Because they are human, they can be all these things.  But you could make this same claim that everyone will think Asian women are only that way, no matter which state we happen to depict an Asian woman to be in.  You’ll say THATS the ONLY way us white folks can understand them to be.

Angry Japanese math teacher?  Stereotype!  Tiger Mom?  Stereotype!  Hyper excited Japanese camera tourist?  Stereotype!  Submissive Asian swimsuit model?  Stereotype!  Chinese dude sitting on a bench not doing anything?  Stereotype!

How many of you are in danger of doing this?  Lets say you saw a Geisha performance.  The very next day you met an Asian woman.  What are you going to do?  Start ordering sushi from her because you saw the geisha serve that the night before?  Everyday Feminism seems to think so.

In researching for this post, I came across this. Whoever made it, thank you. Just... thank you.

In researching for this post, I came across this. Whoever made it, thank you. Just… thank you.

White men actually expect Asian women to live up to the “exotic geisha girl” stereotype” – and of course one of the sources for this claim comes from – a page which mentions “Like many ladies in New York City, I get catcalls all the time.”

Right, like that 10 Hour Video where men have the audacity to say things like “Hello”, “God Bless You” and….. “HAVE A NICE DAY!!!”

No actual statistics from any credible sources are offered – the entire page is only 1 woman retelling the imagined dangers she thinks she’s experienced.   And that’s your proof that geisha stereotypes cause Asian women to be harassed by white men (and specifically white men).  Because one Asian woman got some rude comments online.  I mean you can’t argue with that kind of proven proof.

But if you would like some actual statistics on a related topic, check out this video.  In the first 3 minutes, the author pretty much lays the smackdown on any SJW who might ever try to bring up this topic in regards to Halloween.

TL;DR – if you celebrate Halloween at all, you are celebrating an appropriation of an appropriation of an appropriation of a Celtic holiday you know nothing about.  So you can skip right by all the costume talk.

Also lets head back to that original definition for a moment.

1. What’s being taken from the Japanese by Katy Perry?  I mean if I take your car, but the next morning your car is still there… then how in the hell did I take it?  Geisha’s are still allowed in Japan.  We haven’t taken anything away from them.

2. Where’s the power dynamic?  Japan rivals the US in a number of ways, Japanese culture is very highly respected and admired, so much so that we’ve coined the term “Wapanese”.  I’ve never heard of any modern Japanese person being discriminated against.  Most of us Americans are probably more fascinated to meet a person from Japan, and are more likely to ask them what Japan is like.

— 8) Here it’s said we’ve culturally appropriated yoga, and can practice it, while Indians were once punished for practicing it.  And while we’re benefiting from it commercially, people living in India aren’t.

Or have they?

Consider how much culture we’ve appropriated from China for a moment.  We tattoo their letters on our skin, we eat their food at restaurants, we practice their martial arts, we enjoy watching them in movies, we listen to their music, and Chinese themes can be found decorating our homes.

Now consider how many far right politicians would love it if they could convince the American public to go to war with China, which they can never do now, simply because of how we’ve come to view them.  Despite having such political animosity, China is one of our biggest trading partners, and all of this is thanks in part to our “appropriation”.  A long time ago, we used to have a decidedly racist stance against the Chinese, but that changed too, again thanks to appropriation.  As we start taking more and more of their culture, we stop being racist and start liking them.  Pretty soon we’re even appreciating them!

It’s true that Great Britain once brutally subjugated India.  Today, British teens can be seen wearing nose rings, and cricket is wildly popular in India.  That’s a sign that relations between the two cultures have considerably improved.  There’s no longer hatred between them.  That’s what tends to happen when one culture starts taking from another.  Cultural appropriation makes it hard to stay mad at each other, and even harder to keep seeing the other side as being inferior.  Why would you adopt their culture if it were inferior??

9) From the page: “You should have the right to express yourself however you want to – and you do. Nobody can force you to stop taking things from other cultures.

๑۩ﺴ Reality Check! ﺴ۩๑

Your car is German.  Your vodka is Russian.  Your pizza is Italian.  Your kebab is Turkish.  Your video games are Japanese.  Your democracy is Greek.  Your coffee is Brazilian.  Your tea is British.  Your bread is French.  Your timber is Canadian.  Your rubber is Malaysian.  Your oil is Saudi Arabian.  Your electronics are Chinese.  Your numbers are Arabic.  Your religion originated in the middle east and most of your holidays are pagan.

If cultural appropriation were real, then you don’t appropriate from other cultures.  You **ARE** appropriated culture.

That’s what makes this topic so incessantly inane and inspired this response.  The “power dynamic” is nothing more pseudo-intellectual way of addressing which cultures you actually think are inferior to ours.  We consider the United Kingdom to be on equal terms with us.  That’s why it’s never said that we’re appropriating from them.  Or Australia.  Or Norway.  Or Russia.  There’s no “power dynamic” (we’re not superior).  India is seen as inferior because it’s largely undeveloped as a nation.  Hence there’s a power dynamic (another way of saying we’re superior), and thus we can appropriate from them.  We can identify ourselves as the white devils we are and begin practicing that mental self-flagellation, because we’re more “enlightened”.

Meanwhile, most folks living in India honestly couldn’t care less if Americans are practicing yoga.  Go on facebook right now and ask someone living in India and see for yourself.